Suicide Zen Forgiveness

Bestselling Author Advocate: Grief Support, Suicide Awareness, Support for SUD
Barbara Legere is the author of "Keven's Choice - A Mother's Journey Through Her Son's Mental Illness, Addiction, and Suicide" and the upcoming "Talk to Me, I'm Grieving - Supportive Ways to Help Someone Through Grief."  
She has been featured in Prevention Magazine, Authority Magazine, Salon, and Huffington Post as an advocate for those suffering from substance abuse disorders, mental health issues, and grief.Legere is an advocate for harm reduction, MAT (medically assisted treatment) and ending the stigma towards substance abuse and mental health issues.After losing her son, Keven, to suicide, her passion has been reaching out to other grievers to offer support and understanding. She does this through her writing and as a volunteer for TIP (Traumatic Intervention Program).
“Talk to Me I’m Grieving” will be released on 8/11/2023, the three year memorial date of her son’s death.
A native Californian, Legere resides in Orange County, CA with her sister, and a house full of pets.
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Coach Lois Koffi, a returning guest, has been a coach for 23 years, coaching 20,000 plus people in both health and fitness, as well as business/sales She has seen so so many people focus on the external DOING of goal setting, new year's resolutions and intention setting and realized that most of our success lies WITHIN.
Lois has had her own awakening journey of working through addictive behaviors, depression/anxiety and suicide awareness is her passion as she has lost 12 people to suicide
 
She is now a plant medicine woman specializing in micro-dosing for mental and physical and spiritual health
 
She lives in Southern California with her family and hosts retreats with her beloved husband, Didier, who is a shaman. They use plant medicines as well to help guide and support those that are open to that path of deep dive shadow work and trauma release.
Links
Inner Child Cleansing
Lois Koffi Enterprises
 
Microdosing for health
 
healthy-n-wealthy-n-wise-subscription
 
SOCIAL LINKS
https://www.linkedin.com/in/loiskoffi/
https://www.youtube.com/loiskofficoffee
 

C.G. Buswell is a former army Combat Medical Technician and Staff Nurse. Chris has cared for many military heroes and the traumas he witnessed during his nursing and emergency care of them in life and death led him to develop military Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. He writes about this too in his books. This form of mindfulness helps keep his demons at bay by inserting them into your Kindle!Other postings in his career included the Field Surgical team in Belize, Akrotiri in Cyprus, and Haslar Hospital in Gosport.Chris developed a love for writing during his 10-year service career and has had numerous articles published in journals like Professional Nurse, Nursing Standard, and the Nursing Times.He wanted to include his middle initial in his novels after George Main, his Grandfather, who served with the 2nd Battalion Gordon Highlanders during World War Two. His military novels feature historical actions of the Gordons.Buried in Grief is a tale about the loss of a child. Sadly, Chris drew deeply from his own bereavement to bring this emotional rollercoaster of a novel. It helped him explore his own feelings during his mourning, but the ending terrified most readers, thanks to his dark, twisted mind. He urges you not to read it. He has had therapy and now writes gentle romance stories, of a sort!
 
C.G. Buswell now writes full-time and lives in Boddam, Aberdeenshire with his Bravehound PTSD assistance dog Lyn, fantails white doves, pigeons, and a tortoise - o aye and a wife.
Damien Lewis, the military author and Patron of Bravehound said:"A powerful account of what one dog means to one man on his road to recovery. Both heart-warming and life-affirming. Bravo Chris and Lynne. Bravo Bravehound."
Buy Lynne in UK https://amazon.co.uk/dp/B0C3ZWQGQ4
US  https://amazon.com/dp/B0C3ZWQGQ4
Canada: https://a.co/d/apQbppn 
Available in #Kindle Unlimited or as a #Download for other devices, #Paperback and #Hardcover
Read the opening chapter for free at https://cgbuswell.com/LYNNE-the-Bravehound-golden-retriever-dog-who-helped-me-live-with-my-grief-and-military-PTSD.php… #grief #suicide #PTSD #ptsdrecovery
 
Website & Socials
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Where to get help:
Help for Heroes
Samaritans
Helpline - Cruse Bereavement Support
Call our Helpline
Our volunteers are trained in all types of bereavement and can help you make sense of how you're feeling right now.
0808 808 1677
 
 
 

So honoured to once again speak with Herbie. He's a fellow survivor with a huge mission.  We talk about Social Media and You.. the Good the Bad and the Resources you can use to manage your digital life. 
 
Empowering Suicide Prevention Specialist and Keynote Speaker with Expertise in Suicide Ideation Education and Post-Attempt Guidance | Host of the Just Believe Show | Dedicated to Helping Those Struggling with Suicide.
 
Daily Dose of Inspiration! Mental health is not a destination; it's a journey. A journey that requires patience, self-love, and support. Remember to care for your mental health daily, not just during Mental Health Month. #JustBelieve #MentalHealthMatters
Suicide Prevention Specialist • Suicide Ideation Educator • Provide post-suicide attempt guidance • Keynote Speaker Host of @thejustbelieveshow.
 
Socials And Site
https://herbiemack.com/
https://www.facebook.com/imherbiemack/ 
https://www.instagram.com/hbmack
https://www.tiktok.com/@herbiemack
https://www.twitter.com/HBMACK
https://www.youtube.com/@imherbiemack
 
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Transcript
# Herbie Mack Returns S4 E15
[00:00:00] 
[00:00:00] **Elaine Lindsay:** Hello. It's good to be back. Very happy to be here and excited to have a returning guest today I'm going to be here with Herby Mack, who was on the show back in 2022. And we have a lot to talk about. This is gonna be more of a conversation about what we see going on now. Herbie Mac is an amazing speaker.
[00:00:28] **Elaine Lindsay:** He's all about suicide prevention and just one of the loveliest guys I've ever met. So, without further ado, here we go. Hi. Herbie. 
[00:00:42] **Herbie Mack:** How's everything? 
[00:00:43] **Elaine Lindsay:** It's good. It's good to see you. 
[00:00:46] **Herbie Mack:** Likewise, likewise. I'm, I'm honored to be a returning guest and also, I'm just ready for this conversation. I think that's how we can prevent suicide.
[00:00:56] **Herbie Mack:** It's just my conversation. 
[00:00:58] **Elaine Lindsay:** That is such a [00:01:00] perfect start to this. Yes it is conversation. Talking is, to me the most important thing and I know for your generation and younger, we're starting to get that message out. For my generation, talking was not something you ever give. And I have a, a real deep-seated need to make sure that all of us, right down to the youngest person who might have a suicidal thought, I want you to know you need to reach out and talk to someone, anyone.
[00:01:47] **Elaine Lindsay:** Don't keep it inside, because what people sometimes don't remember all the thoughts that run through your head. Number one, they're not real. Number two, they're not true. And number three, when you [00:02:00] tell someone you lessen that burden.
[00:02:06] **Elaine Lindsay:** So that, that's my little often running. That's 
[00:02:10] **Herbie Mack:** your TED talk? 
[00:02:12] **Elaine Lindsay:** That's my mini TED talk. Yes, yes. Talk to somebody. Anybody 
[00:02:17] **Herbie Mack:** I do agree. You know, for myself, during the, the challenges that I had, the struggles and, and trying to decide if I wanna be here or not, I found it easier once I started talking to like, really backtrack that man, you know, do, do I wanna make that forever decision.
[00:02:37] **Herbie Mack:** And it's like, no, I don't, I actually want to be here, but I want the pain to end. And, but I. When I sat down and started having conversations with people, right. The, support group that I like to say, they really helped me reframe my mindset of like, man, I understand that you're hurting, but it is okay to, to, to ask for help.
[00:02:56] **Herbie Mack:** And now, like, you know, being a guy like, oh my [00:03:00] life, they've been saying, you know, asking for help is a sign of weakness. **So I started reframing my mindset into let me use my resources, and that changed everything. **
[00:03:12] **Elaine Lindsay:** Oh my God, that's brilliant. That is brilliant. 
[00:03:17] **Herbie Mack:** Yeah. You just being told, like, you know, asking for help.
[00:03:21] **Herbie Mack:** Weakness, weakness, weakness. But then when you look at it and you say, let me ask, let me use my resources, it it, it's you realizing like, man, I have great assets and friends or maybe access to actually seek someone to, to. Provide the proper help that I need, whether it's a, you know, a counselor, a therapist, social worker, whomever works for you that can help you get out of that negative mindset.
[00:03:46] **Herbie Mack:** And once I've said that, it was just like, oh, life is so much easier. Right? Because like, like if my car breaks down and I know I need a ride, I'm gonna call you. Not because I'm active for help, I'm just looking at my phone and I'm looking at the resources that I have that can give me a [00:04:00] ride to where I need to go.
[00:04:01] **Herbie Mack:** Yes. 
[00:04:03] **Elaine Lindsay:** And I'm sorry you'll wait a little while for me to get there, but I'll be there. 
[00:04:07] **Herbie Mack:** You're worth the wait. 
[00:04:08] **Elaine Lindsay:** Okay. You're such a sweetheart. Oh. Giving aside, no, I think that's a really, really good point. Reframing gives us an opportunity. To turn things on their head. And we talk about that in business.
[00:04:24] **Elaine Lindsay:** Yes, a lot reframing how you go about managing your business can inject a, a whole new outlook. So why not, you know, take that as a resource and use that in your personal toolbox. And that brings us to two things. I really believe that we need to start the conversations with elementary school children.
[00:04:55] **Elaine Lindsay:** Suicidal ideation starts a lot younger than [00:05:00] people think. And y you said you decided y you knew you wanted to be here. People who know my story know that I lost a dear friend at 16 and her death was her showing me. That leaving was not the best option and what it would do to those that I would leave behind.
[00:05:27] **Elaine Lindsay:** And I think because I'm so hardheaded, the universe decided that that was the way to show me. And, and it doesn't work for everybody. It's not necessary for everybody, thank God. But we need to be sure that from childhood you understand that not everything that goes through your head ha you have to act on, or, or is the truth or, or is in fact reality.
[00:05:58] **Elaine Lindsay:** And you [00:06:00] can't fix what you don't understand or don't know. And, and in all honesty, I don't think school prepares us for any of the things that actually happen in life. 
[00:06:15] **Herbie Mack:** Yes. And I, I would say yes and no. Yeah. Like, is there, is there, is there a, a subject for it? Like in a school curriculum, probably not.
[00:06:23] **Herbie Mack:** Right? But then when you come across certain teachers, certain teachers have a certain way on you. You know, for myself, I was having, in high school, I was really struggling. My sister died from cancer. And one of my friends who was like, Hey, you know, do you play basketball? Whatnot, was like, oh, yeah, yeah, I do.
[00:06:41] **Herbie Mack:** And I was actually pretty good. And then he suggests, let's go on the basketball team. Let's try out, we make the team. And it was a coach that really helped me out, not only in that moment, but in life. He was always saying, Hey Herby, what's the weakest areas in your game? I'm just like, dude, I don't know.
[00:06:57] **Herbie Mack:** You're the coach. Like, you're supposed to let me know. [00:07:00] And he's like he's like, all right, look, I'm gonna teach you the, these tools to know what areas to improve on. So this way when the season's over, you can work on it. Cool, right? Like just analyzing my game. So when I was going through my suicidal ideations and, and, and attempts when it's like time to pick me up, I decided to use that method, right?
[00:07:20] **Herbie Mack:** But instead of using it in a basketball term of like, oh, like, let me look at the film. The film was me sitting down and actually journaling, right? So this way I was able to understand what areas in my life I have to improve on. You know, in my mind, you know, when, when you, you know, when you're in your twenties and your thirties, you think, I know it all right?
[00:07:39] **Herbie Mack:** Like, my life is good. My life is amazing. But then when I sat down and took that moment to pause and analyze the game and, and my writing right, I realized my foundation was extremely weak. I didn't really have a great foundation, so what can I do? What can I work on? How to build a foundation, right?
[00:07:55] **Herbie Mack:** Then it went from finances, right? Like realizing that I am [00:08:00] making a lot of irrational decisions, emotional decisions, instead of logical decisions on like, Hey, I'm going out to the club, I'm going out to the strip clubs, I'm going out to the bars. We're going here and there. But then the long term, I wasn't really putting an investment on myself, right?
[00:08:14] **Herbie Mack:** So it was like stuff like that. And I always thank coach White for just taking the time to help me break down the game of basketball. But then I had to learn how to reframe my mind and use it in a, in a way of like, in a game of life, what areas do I need to prove on? What can I do? What, what was, and that despite like one of the biggest, like, thank you.
[00:08:36] **Herbie Mack:** I can, I can, I can say about him. Yeah. And, and it was wasn't just the. The skills of basketball he taught also taught me about life. Hey man, you know, slow down. You're moving too fast. It's fast. You don't need to hang out with people. That's taking, taking a, well, not taking, but adding distractions in your life.
[00:08:55] **Elaine Lindsay:** It's incredible. And I think all of us have those people in our lives. [00:09:00] Sometimes it takes a while for us to, to be able to remember what it was that someone did for you or, or you know, how useful the information you learned was. But I think everybody at some point gets someone in their life. And if you can be aware of these types of mentors and these types of people, then when we are open, To help when we're open to resources, let's say, let's not use the word help when we're open to resources and to, to interacting with others who may have other game plans that we can use.
[00:09:48] **Elaine Lindsay:** The universe provides whether you call it God or the universe or a higher power, whatever you call it. Okay. They, it will be provided. It's [00:10:00] just a matter of being open, being curious. Right. I think that's really important and, and that, that's sort of let, let's segue into what I see as one of the biggest issues.
[00:10:17] **Elaine Lindsay:** A a, an area I've, I've worked in for many, many years, but social media is both a blessing and a curse. And like everything that's happening right now online ai, all of the, the changes that we are going through, it is ramping up to the speed of light. And none of us had the time or the foresight to listen to those who were saying, caution, caution here.
[00:10:56] **Elaine Lindsay:** And here we are. You and I are here [00:11:00] because suicide in the world now is the second leading cause of death. More than 800,000 people died from suicide every year. Like that's, that's a staggering number. And the most, I think, terrifying. Part of that. Is, there are many, many times social media's involved.
[00:11:31] **Elaine Lindsay:** Yeah, 
[00:11:32] **Herbie Mack:** yeah, yeah. I, you know, it, it's, I love social media and I hate it at the same time, you know, you can be, be someone with you know, amazing smile and you can post a picture like, oh, what a wonderful day. And then you'll have someone that you may, you you may know or you may not know, that will reply in your picture and be like, oh, you're ugly, or whatever, you're fat, or whatever.
[00:11:56] **Herbie Mack:** And it's, and that can just be a [00:12:00] spark for someone who's already having insecurities that's just like, man, you know what? I'm always getting picked on. Nobody loves me. And you learn not to love yourself. And then you go into that negative place of making that forever decision and. I feel like when it comes to social media, yes we do dictate what we watch, what we control, who's in our who's on our feed no matter what platform you choose.
[00:12:22] **Herbie Mack:** And for myself, I had to do something. When I was in that negative mindset, I just got off of social media cause I wasn't that strong enough. And then when I got back on social media, I started unfollowing some of my friends that wasn't align, aligning to what I wanted. Right. I wanted to be someone who woke up and had positive thoughts, all this stuff.
[00:12:44] **Herbie Mack:** So I started following people that was inspiring me to do that. And I started unfollowing people who was just like poaching, posting pictures of like, them just sitting on the couch, right? Like, it's not really adding the value that I needed or, or they started posting things [00:13:00] that wasn't aligned with me as far as like negative Negative, negative fights.
[00:13:04] **Herbie Mack:** Like, you know, it's just like, oh, you know, like all this negative stuff. And it's just like, I didn't need that. And it takes, I wanna say bravery to one, acknowledge like, Hey, I'm not in that mindset to, to receive all this negative stuff. I don't want this negative stuff. Let me unfollow certain people. Like I unfollow some of my family members, right?
[00:13:25] **Herbie Mack:** Not because I don't love them, but what they was shown on their feet, I didn't wanna see anymore. Yeah. And then I, same thing with friends. And for that, you know, when it comes to social media, you want to make sure that you're, you're following people. That's going to inspire you or gonna add value, whether it's entertainment of like, you know, something that's gonna make you laugh, that's not gonna bring you down.
[00:13:46] **Herbie Mack:** Yeah. And I think, I think it should be something that's talked about now. It's like we control our social media that is like our cable to say the least, right? Yeah. So it's like, hey, let me, let me follow this. Whether it's a sports team, whether it's a [00:14:00] motivational speaker, whether it is your favorite podcast about, about phishes, right?
[00:14:05] **Herbie Mack:** Like, it's like, let me follow something that makes me happy, that add value and the stuff that doesn't, I'm just gonna block out. I don't wanna see this, I don't want that. And then that just only thing, only thing that's gonna come from that is obviously you being a better person, but you're gonna get the right people in your circle.
[00:14:21] **Herbie Mack:** Yeah. That's gonna vibe with you. That's gonna not bring you down, but lift you up. 
[00:14:26] **Elaine Lindsay:** Absolutely. And in talking to younger people, I know how exciting it is to, to get likes and to have comments and, you know, and, and to try and keep up with those, sorry. But the Kardashians and what have you. And I'm not knocking the Kardashians.
[00:14:50] **Elaine Lindsay:** Okay. I have to say for, for all the stuff that's out there, these are good, smart business women Okay. Who put a [00:15:00] lot of effort into what they do and, and kudos to you. And, and I have to say, I actually like Kylie's lipsticks, so there you go. Even at my age, but all of those people, okay. They didn't start with a billion followers.
[00:15:18] **Elaine Lindsay:** They didn't start yesterday. So all of the young people that are looking at the college Jenners and, and What's Kelsey Ballerini and, and all of these people, yes, it looks wonderful, but they didn't get there in five minutes. You have to take time. There's no rush to living your life. Try and be where you are.
[00:15:43] **Elaine Lindsay:** And for, for me, I see the problem with the young people is one bad comic can be the end of somebody. Like, it's happened. This, this is not, you know, this is not a fairy [00:16:00] story. This is the truth. And, and the fact is, I, I have a, a different take now than I would have early on in social media, even young people.
[00:16:13] **Elaine Lindsay:** I want you to look at the people that troll others, the people that say hurtful things that don't even know you. Imagine, okay. That you can see into their life. I guarantee you, you're going to see pain and hurt and trauma and old stuff that they're carting along with them because people who hurt are the ones who hurt other people.
[00:16:43] **Elaine Lindsay:** And, and that's true all the time. It doesn't matter what they're hurting with. I posted a little video on the Instagram it was one of the school shootings. I, [00:17:00] I just breaks my heart. And this year specifically, it's been happening so much. There were more than 150 shootings and there weren't 150 days in the year at that point.
[00:17:14] **Elaine Lindsay:** And I, I just had enough. It was late at night. I'm tired of crying over other people's children. And I just got on and said like, I'm sorry, America, what is wrong? What is wrong with you? That you value guns more than children? Yeah. How? How can that be? And I had a couple of really vicious trolls that were calling me all kinds of things.
[00:17:38] **Elaine Lindsay:** And it was like, okay, I feel very sad for you. Thank you for sharing. And that's that because I can't do anything about your opinion if you are not open to learning something new. And therefore, me trying to interact with you [00:18:00] or change your opinion at this point is futile for me. So if I just say, thank you for sharing, and this came from Marissa Pier, a hypnotist.
[00:18:13] **Elaine Lindsay:** That sort of diffuses things because there's no comeback for them. No, it's not okay. And any comeback is if, if you are somewhere where you have to engage, you just keep repeating. Thank you for sharing, because you don't wanna be rude, you don't wanna engage and ramp it up because the only person who's gonna get hurt is you.
[00:18:41] **Elaine Lindsay:** And in social media, my suggestion for young people, the minute someone trolls you and it's someone you don't know, block them. I don't care what platform you're on, I don't care that your friends follow them. Don't care about [00:19:00] any of that. Somebody attacks you. Think of that as your little space. Okay?
[00:19:05] **Elaine Lindsay:** That's your little place. Somebody comes into your home and attacks you, you block them, they're gone. Okay. And, and there's no three strikes here, okay? We are talking about your mental health, your wellbeing, and, and keeping you going. So no three strikes, one strike block. 'em, you do not, as Herbe said, you don't need that in your life.
[00:19:33] **Elaine Lindsay:** No, you don't. It's just not worth it. 
[00:19:36] **Herbie Mack:** Yeah, no, I wanted to add to that as well. You know, if, you know, it doesn't even matter if you don't know them, if you know, like it's not worth your energy. As far as as like the negative stuff, the negative comments, even for myself, like, you know, as much positive stuff I try to send out to the world, I do get negative comments or negative dms.
[00:19:54] **Herbie Mack:** And even with that, you know, I acknowledge it. Okay. All right. That's how you feel. I didn't [00:20:00] resonate with you. Okay, cool. And. I don't even, I don't even take it home with me. You know, as far as like that. It's like, oh, okay, cool. Like that's, everyone is entitled to how they feel, what, you know. But for myself, I know, like I'm trying to add good, I'm trying to be the, the, the shine my light, right?
[00:20:20] **Herbie Mack:** Like I'm trying to shine people light on who, who are struggling. Oh, just might just need a, a little pick me up. And sometimes it's, it's me, right? Like I'll create a pulse and I see it like two days later, like, oh, you know what? That actually resonated. And for the negative feedback that I do get back, it's just like, okay, cool.
[00:20:36] **Herbie Mack:** Thank you. As you said, thank you. Appreciate it. And just keep it pushing it. And if they do want to keep going, then yeah, obviously you just hit the block button. You know, I, I'm all about creating space for people who need space, but also you have to put on your own, your own oxygen mask, right? This is not helping me, so I can't assist you.
[00:20:54] **Herbie Mack:** Yeah. You know, you know, so it's like leave me alone. But, but needless to say, when it comes to to social [00:21:00] media, I do give myself a limit, right? Because it can be unhealthy. Yeah, it can be addictive as far as like, oh, look how many likes I got, look how many people view my reels. But then it's like, am I really doing it for, you know, the benefit of helping out people or am I doing it for the likes?
[00:21:16] **Herbie Mack:** And it, when you start thinking about that or questioning that, that's when you might have to take a moment to just get off of social media. So, you know, one day, one day a week, my one day is like Sundays. I really don't try to engage on social media. I might have some stuff scheduled to post, but as far as like me like spending hours on it, nah, it, it's, I need to still be, you know, dealing with the kids, dealing with the wife, or just taking a walk and just really being present in in life.
[00:21:45] **Elaine Lindsay:** Absolutely. And yeah, Sunday around here the dog and I go see my dad and. You know, we, we do family things and what have you, and the only reason I even have a phone beside me is because my father's 90 years [00:22:00] old and he needs to be able to get in contact with me. I very often leave the phone in the kitchen because it's just, it's become so, it's not even secondary anymore.
[00:22:15] **Elaine Lindsay:** It's so far down the list of priorities that yes, as a business we, we do schedule things that will go out and that's, that is, you know, it's part of business. You have to, but for, for me, responding and what have you, I found that weekends should be for family and if you can take one or two days to just sort of distance yourself from it all.
[00:22:42] **Elaine Lindsay:** Now, I understand if you are a teenager or you are in your twenties, You are thinking, I have two heads and I'm a nut. There's no way you're gonna spend that much time away from your friends. And it's okay. I [00:23:00] totally get it. But you wanna be sure. Okay, Herbie said, are you doing it to add value or are you doing it?
[00:23:09] **Elaine Lindsay:** And I'm gonna say for the dopamine, yeah, that hit of dopamine inside is such a boost. That's what those likes do for you. It puts little firecrackers off in your head that that give you that wonderful feeling. And we all love dopamine. We love that, that euphoria that you get. And that's good. But it's like anything else.
[00:23:35] **Elaine Lindsay:** Think about eating three ice cream cones instead of one, and then you get sick. Okay, really that third one was not worth it. Cut back a little. Give yourself as her rec. Give yourself time. Yes. Set yourself a limit and stick to that limit. And please God for if you do nothing [00:24:00] else, I want you, before you hit the floor with your feet in the morning, take a couple of breaths.
[00:24:09] **Elaine Lindsay:** Be grateful that you're breathing. Think about your day and get the hell out of the bed before you touch that phone or tablet or whatever else it is that you've got stuck beside your head. Okay? Because all that external stuff, as much as it's fun and important in your life, it's not the end all be all.
[00:24:34] **Elaine Lindsay:** And when you start each day with gratitude, you are more likely to finish that day the same way. 
[00:24:41] **Herbie Mack:** Yes. I, I wouldn't say so. That's a funny story. Not a really funny story, but so it was like me, me and my brother, a couple of my friends, we went out to like, go out to eat and one of my friends was like, all right, look dude.
[00:24:56] **Herbie Mack:** We're all on our phone, we're out here, we're, you know, we all came to see each other [00:25:00] like, what's going on? And so we had a friendly bet, everybody put down this, their cell phone, and it was four of us. And it was like everybody putting down their cell phone, the first person picks up their cell phone, has to pay the whole entire task.
[00:25:11] **Herbie Mack:** All right, now you think it's like four guys, so you know it's gonna be way more than like 20 bucks. And so with that, it was just like, oh, okay, this is like challenging. But then it, it, the, I'm gonna show my age. It took us back before like the cell phone times where everybody just was engaging and having conversations and really actually catching up and not just like, oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah.
[00:25:36] **Herbie Mack:** Oh, hey, did you see this? Oh, guess what? Like, you know, like, this is what's going on in the, in the world of sports, or this is what's going on in pop culture. And it was just like, no. Like, we actually was like, Hey, what's going on in your life? How's everything improving? Did you actually get that bonus that you was looking for?
[00:25:49] **Herbie Mack:** Did you get that raise right? Or, Hey, how's school going? And we did that. And obviously dinner was probably like an hour, hour and a half or so. And for that hour and a [00:26:00] half, like you hear the phone's buzzing and no one picked up the phone. Well, one, nobody wanted to pick up that tab, but it was like, man, we took it back to back in the days before cell phones.
[00:26:11] **Herbie Mack:** Right? Like I like to say BC times before cell phones. Oh, I like that. And, and we was just actually just engaging into conversations and not only engages in, into conversations, but like really engaging with it and within us, right? Like, man, I'm making an investment into you cuz you know what, this is the most important thing that I'm never gonna get this time with you.
[00:26:31] **Herbie Mack:** I can always replay a reel or replay a YouTube video, whatever, but I can't re, I can't. Repurpose this, right? This event of like, yes, man, here we are. We're actually doing well. One is in college, one is actually like in their field, the other one is still trying to figure out how can we support. So I was like, seeing that was, was something that I enjoy.
[00:26:53] **Herbie Mack:** And then like every time, every now and then when we do go out, we always like, Hey, no cell phones. He's like, oh, you gonna pick up the [00:27:00] tab? All right. No cell phones, you know, unless it's like, you know, the wife or something like that. Yeah, yeah. Then like, okay, cool, we get it. But like, other than that, it's like, dude, we don't wanna see No, no Facebook, no Instagram, no TikTok, no YouTube.
[00:27:12] **Herbie Mack:** We just want to like, Hey, let's spend time and and catch up. Yeah. 
[00:27:16] **Elaine Lindsay:** No, and I think that's important. And I think even, even if you are 11, 12, 13, you need to make a plan with your friends to do that maybe once a week. Okay. Spend an hour with your friends. Face to face and talk to them. Just talk to them.
[00:27:37] **Elaine Lindsay:** Because talking seems to be a, a lot less of what younger people do. I see it all the time. You go into a restaurant and there are kids sitting at the table and they all have phones, but if you go really close, they're talking to the other people at the table, just 
[00:27:55] **Herbie Mack:** texted each other. It's like, 
[00:27:57] **Elaine Lindsay:** what? Yeah.
[00:27:57] **Elaine Lindsay:** That is crazy. Yeah. [00:28:00] And the first time I saw that I, I literally stopped and the young lady across the table laughed and looked up and smiled across the table and I thought, oh, please tell me they're not actually texting each other. And I went up to the table. First of all, they thought it was just some nutty old lady, whoa, what do you want, woman?
[00:28:23] **Elaine Lindsay:** And I said, you know, I don't mean to be rude, but are you texting each other? And they looked at me like I had three heads and were. Yeah, but they're in front of you. Like, could you not say that? And, and they, they took a beat and looked at me like, oh yeah, I guess they, they didn't stop. They went back to their texting that we saw them later, but maybe I put a little bug in their head that the next time they'll look up and actually say something to the person at the table.
[00:28:59] **Elaine Lindsay:** [00:29:00] We, we have become, you know, I've said before as such a society of immediacy and, and fomo. Like, God forbid we don't know something happened this second. That's no way to live. If you are, you're constantly pushing your body. It's not just about dopamine. When you make yourself so stressed that you're waiting for to be sure you know what happens, you are, you know, flooding yourself with cortisol and other.
[00:29:32] **Elaine Lindsay:** Hormones and things that are not helpful to you, and being in that hyper state, that was, that was good when you were a caveman and you were running away from sabertooth tigers. But we don't have those kinds of immediate danger every second in our lives anymore. Yet that's how we are living internally, and that's causing all kinds of problems [00:30:00] for young people and old people alike because it, it is not, the body is not meant to produce that amount of cortisol or, or those amounts of adrenaline or, or the, the fear motivators that flight, fight, or flight response, it should not be 24 7.
[00:30:22] **Elaine Lindsay:** Yeah. 
[00:30:23] **Herbie Mack:** No, I agree. No, I agree with that. I just wanted to, to add value to what you said as far as like that, you know, sometimes not only with social media, the world seem like it's moving too fast and, and to take that moment to slow it down, whether you start writing, whether you start journaling, coloring, whatever.
[00:30:46] **Herbie Mack:** Just taking a moment to just not be in the phone, not really engage, to just be with your thoughts. And for some people it can be, man, that's, that's a lot to take on my own thoughts. But releasing those thoughts, [00:31:00] whether they're negative or positive, helps, right? You, you're keeping all that inside, you're keeping all that bottle up where to a point where it's like, man, it's unhealthy.
[00:31:09] **Herbie Mack:** And like, oh, well I just share it with my friends. I'll text and whatever sometimes, and I'm just speaking for myself. Sometimes you may not want that feedback. Right. You just want to be, have a, a, a safe space to vent and not everybody is strong enough to, to take on whatever burden that you have to carry.
[00:31:28] **Herbie Mack:** Yeah. And that's why I find it so easier, beneficial to release those emotions, whether it's in a book or, or coloring. Yeah. Right. Excuse me. So one of the times I was really struggling and I was on, on the way of picking myself up. One of my buddies, my buddies probably like 6 4, 6 5, 300 pounds. And he's like, Hey, we're gonna go play basketball, right?
[00:31:52] **Herbie Mack:** He was like as we called him around the way, like Baby Shaq and and he's like, oh, you know, you like my Kobe, right? And I'm like, okay, cool. You know, he's like, Hey, I'm [00:32:00] gonna come pick you up. We're gonna go play basketball. And I'm really like, I'm not in the, the greatest mindset right now to play basketball, let alone to be around people.
[00:32:09] **Herbie Mack:** The world was moving way too fast. My negative thoughts was like racing. And for some reason, you know, I had a coloring book, and the coloring book was like the Justice League. And I was like, Hey, I'm gonna go color. And he's like, Hey, you know, you know, he's banging on my door. He's like, Hey, Herby, you ready?
[00:32:25] **Herbie Mack:** And I'm like, no, I just, I just need the color. Like, and he's just like, yeah bro, can we go like, forget the coloring, like can we go play basketball? And I'm like, no, you don't understand. I need to do this. And he's going back and forth with me and I scream at him and I'm a pretty like, calm dude. Yeah. He's like, I just need to color right now.
[00:32:47] **Herbie Mack:** And he's just like, all right, I'm just gonna have a seat. And I kid you not, the only thing I colored was the S on Superman's chest. That was it. I didn't color [00:33:00] anything else. It was just that, and that s you know, if, if you're a Superman fan, it's like hope, right? Yeah. And I needed something to hold onto.
[00:33:08] **Herbie Mack:** And that s was hope. And you know, I thank my friend. He didn't really press me right away, like, Hey, no, like, what's going on? And we waited to, like, after basketball, and I told him, I was like, man, the world was moving too fast. And I needed something to provide hope, Superman. The s was the hope. And I needed to color, I'm not gonna lie you, I did not color very well.
[00:33:31] **Herbie Mack:** I was barely in those lines, but it's just something that I needed to slow down. And he got it. And he was like, Hey, okay, this is bigger than just like sports. If you ever need to talk, let's talk. You know? And he's like, Hey, do you want to go get a beer? Do you wanna do that? And I was just like, no. I just, I just wanna go home and color.
[00:33:52] **Herbie Mack:** And he's like, all right, cool. Drop me off. He stayed in the crib to like watch basketball while I was coloring. And he just wanted to, I guess like [00:34:00] now that I look at it, he just wanted to make sure that I was okay. And, and I say this story because sometimes we need someone, but then we also need something to help slow the world down.
[00:34:11] **Herbie Mack:** And for me, coloring was slow the world down. I was in my, I was in my own head and I was becoming my own enemy as far as like the negative thoughts. But once I started coloring and saw the, the, the superman symbol, I was like, okay, I am Superman. I can't take this on. Right. Like, let me turn this negative into a positive.
[00:34:29] **Herbie Mack:** And, and then having someone there like Batman to support me helped out. Yeah. Very well. 
[00:34:37] **Elaine Lindsay:** Well, kudos to your friend for being so empathetic and, and also picking up on how important that really was to you. Because sometimes people don't, they love us, but they don't pick up on our cues because we aren't [00:35:00] often very forthcoming.
[00:35:03] **Elaine Lindsay:** We tend to sort of go sideways when we, when we really wanna say something of import. We're not often, you know, head on because there's so much going on inside. I have a, it's not, I don't think it's as useful as coloring or journaling, but in dating myself too, in the late eighties, I managed a dance studio and the young professional dancers would come in after school and they brought in their crap about their girlfriends and their boyfriends and the fight they had and the teacher that annoyed them, and yada, yada yada.
[00:35:45] **Elaine Lindsay:** And it was just, You know, noise. And it's not just noise, okay? When you're in a space with a lot of people and there's a lot of negativity, you can actually, the air [00:36:00] is heavy, it's oppressive, like it's not good. So the first week I was there, I took a cardboard box, not very big. I colored it brightly, like put wrapping paper around it, and I wrote sea box, okay?
[00:36:22] **Elaine Lindsay:** It's crap box. And when they come in after school that day, I said, okay, don't you all stand around me here, see this, this is the crap box. I'm putting it at the bottom of the stairs. And when you come in, I want you to dump everything, your boyfriends, your arguments, your teachers, your homework, your shitty grades, whatever.
[00:36:45] **Elaine Lindsay:** Put 'em in the box. You can pick 'em up when you want, when you leave, or you can choose to just let them go. Doesn't matter to me. They don't come past that doorway. And all these years later, I [00:37:00] still know some of those wonderful dancers and they're incredible people. And the kids said, oh, you know, that's really cool.
[00:37:08] **Elaine Lindsay:** I went home and I completely forgot that I had a fight with X, Y, Z, and, and it was just good. And it's it's something you can do in your home if you have a, a few children, because there's always, you know, a little bit of angst between siblings and what have you in classrooms, in, in dance studios, in wherever.
[00:37:32] **Elaine Lindsay:** Having that external place to leave your troubles is better than dragging them around in your head. And I wouldn't have known how to voice that back then. It just kind of made sense to me. So if that's what you have to do with your social media, put it in a virtual box, put it in that crap box, and when you're [00:38:00] ready to go back to social, only take out the stuff that matters.
[00:38:06] **Elaine Lindsay:** Not the bad stuff. Just leave that crap in there. 
[00:38:11] **Herbie Mack:** I love that. Like I really do. I do. I love that. Thank you. You know, you do need a safe space to, to release that, you know, those emotions, so negative emotions. You know, and, and for myself But I, I didn't have a box. I just had like one of those, I guess you would call like a, a, a dump journal.
[00:38:31] **Herbie Mack:** Right. Like just dumping out my, my emotions. Yeah. And then sometimes when the, when it was too much baggage I would write as if I was a three year old, you know? And it just, like, once I was able to like, release those emotions and, and just rip it out out the journal and just tearing it up, I was just like, oh, man, not only did that negative thought went away, but the, the, the baggage of stress that I was carrying with it is gone.
[00:38:57] **Herbie Mack:** And, and it's highly important for that. So [00:39:00] like, even now in today's place, like there's not enough safe spaces that I see where you can actually express yourself release that baggage and feel good about it. Right. I know, like, you know, we, we love the human connection. Right. And even for myself, I do like peer meetings and whatnot, and sometimes people come in with the With that heavy emotion, like a, like, no, they're carrying, carrying like a blue wilm on them, and then after, after our sessions, they seem so better.
[00:39:29] **Herbie Mack:** And it's just like, you know, just allowing people to express themselves and that's all they want. You know, I have a very close relationship with one of my sisters and, you know, when I'm going through it and I have the emotions, I always text her, Hey, do you have space for me? Right? Because one, I don't know what she's dealing with on, on opposite side of, of, of her, of her on opposite side of the phone.
[00:39:52] **Herbie Mack:** But two, I also want to make sure that I'm not bombarding her with my nonsense of what I'm going [00:40:00] through and not validating her feelings. So I always ask her like, Hey, do you have space for me? And she's like you know, no, not right now. Or vice versa is like, Hey, let's sit down and schedule a spot. When you can vent, but then not only when you could vent, you know, it's like, hey, well, do you want feedback or do you just want someone to listen?
[00:40:19] **Herbie Mack:** And that not only helped our communication so much better, but it also, we know what to prepare for. Right? So some, like, probably like a month ago, she was like, Hey do you have space for me? No feedback. And she went on like a two hour rant and I was just like, okay, you know, I'm fine. And she's, she was like, what do you think?
[00:40:40] **Herbie Mack:** And I was just like, but you just told me you don't want any feedback. I was like, if you want feedback, guess what? Let's schedule tomorrow. I don't, I just, I wanna validate your feelings and your emotions. Not, not only because I, I I see you, but I want you to understand that I do hear you. Yeah. 
[00:40:56] **Elaine Lindsay:** And I, and I think that's a really, sorry to interrupt you.
[00:40:59] **Elaine Lindsay:** That's a really [00:41:00] important distinction because we're not always looking for people to ride in on their white horse and save us. We, we just wanna be heard. 
[00:41:11] **Herbie Mack:** Yes. Yeah. Yeah. The support, even for myself through my, my challenges and my struggles, I wanted someone to, yeah, as you said now I didn't, I didn't want someone to be the superhero.
[00:41:22] **Herbie Mack:** I just wanted to like, Hey, let me just vent whatever emotions that has been carrying for, for years that now I'm acknowledging. And then if I do want feedback or, or anything like that, I'll ask for it. You know what I mean? Let, let me, let me, Hey, can, can I get feedback here? Can I get feedback there and now, like, you know, that, that helped our relationship.
[00:41:44] **Herbie Mack:** But I do that with everyone, right? The clients that I do work with, Hey, this is a safe space. If you want to vet, let's vent. If you want feedback, please let me know. Right? And sometimes I, you know, even if like, Hey, I want some feedback, I'm like, okay, fine. I'll allow them to vent and then I'll [00:42:00] sit there and I'll just have them answer their own questions.
[00:42:05] **Herbie Mack:** And they're like, oh, oh, but you didn't really gimme feedback. I'm like, I don't think you really came here for feedback. I think you just came here to try to figure out the answer. You know the answer, but you just want to hear it out loud. And just giving them that space and opportunity helps out so much.
[00:42:19] **Elaine Lindsay:** Oh, absolutely. And, and I can have to say thank you again for all that you do. I appreciate it because it's critically important. Having people that can, can be there for others, I think is incredible. And it's, I have to acknowledge that it takes a lot of work for you to be able to do that for others while still protecting yourself.
[00:42:53] **Elaine Lindsay:** Yeah. Because that's an important skill to learn, to be able to do what you do. 
[00:42:58] **Herbie Mack:** Thank you. Thank you. I've [00:43:00] learned They're importance of self-care boundaries. So, you know, Sundays is like my recharge day and if I, if I felt like I poured out too much on that that week, then obviously Saturday too, right?
[00:43:12] **Herbie Mack:** And then allowing myself to say no. Right. No's a complete sentence. Hey, yes it is. Hey, her, her, Hey Herby, do you got space for me? No, I don't. You always have space for me. Can you make space? And it's like, no, I can't, because right now I'm barely aflo. I need to recharge myself before I take on whatever baggage that I have to take on.
[00:43:30] **Herbie Mack:** You know, it's like, not to say like their baggage is negative or anything like that, but sometimes like I. It can be overwhelming, but then also I still have to juggle the husband and the father's side. So it's like, Hey, I got a lot on my plate as well. Give me a moment. Let me recharge and we can reevaluate this.
[00:43:45] **Herbie Mack:** Or if that, if I notice they're in a crisis, then it's like, okay, obviously I'm gonna actually stop to, to, to assist. But for the most time, they're not really in a crisis, thank, thank goodness. But it's just like life is getting too much for [00:44:00] them and they don't know how to slow the world down, as I like to say.
[00:44:03] **Herbie Mack:** And, you know, I'm like, Hey, what about the tools that we worked on? Have you tried this? Have we tried this? No, no. I just thought about calling you. And I'm just like, call me for option Z because I want you to, to feel like you have your power to change your world. And you do, you know, let's, you know. So I'm like, I'm here to navigate and coach you through it, but at the same time, I wanna make sure you believe in yourself and you have the confidence to do that, right.
[00:44:28] **Herbie Mack:** And 
[00:44:28] **Elaine Lindsay:** those, those resources that you've given others, that toolbox is with you at all times. Yes. And you know, it's like anything else, we get better and we become more expert at what we do when we do it more often. 
[00:44:46] **Herbie Mack:** Yeah. Yes, yes. Practice, make progress. Absolutely. If we're, if we're not, if we're not doing any of the the practice, then how can we grow?
[00:44:54] **Herbie Mack:** Right. It's like we're not making any progress. We're just, you know? Absolutely. I'm gonna use my resources [00:45:00] for this person, call that person for that. And sometimes it's like, Hey, you can do that, but you have to do the work too. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Like, I can plant the seed, but you have to take care of your garden baby like you have to.
[00:45:13] **Elaine Lindsay:** Yeah. It's like, think, think of, you know when, when our kids learn to walk, if the first time your kid falls down, you pick him up and every time you pick him up, he's never gonna walk. Mm-hmm. Okay. He's just gonna wait for you to pick him up. Yeah. You know, that we, we get the resources that we need so that we can then implement them.
[00:45:35] **Elaine Lindsay:** That's where men do. 
[00:45:37] **Herbie Mack:** Oh yeah. Yeah. And even for myself, like I always try to, you know, use my own toolbox and then I, when I realize like some of the tools that I'm using are, is not being effective, then I know it's like it's time to chart new tool. Right? So like if there's a couple of clients I was working with last week and you know, I was like, Hey, how's your self care routine?
[00:45:57] **Herbie Mack:** And yada yada, oh yeah, I've been doing this and doing this and doing [00:46:00] that. And I realized like just from the outside perspective that they was getting comfortable, which is cool to a certain extent. So I was like, Hey, I want you guys to try something different. It's like four of them, and they're like, oh, different.
[00:46:12] **Herbie Mack:** And one, I'm like, I want you to do one activity that you haven't done before. Right. And it doesn't necessarily have to be, you know, something extreme like jumping out of a plane or anything. But I was like, one activity that you haven't done before. And one guy was like, well, you know, I never went jet skiing and I want to do it.
[00:46:27] **Herbie Mack:** It looks like it's fun. Okay, well try it out. Yeah. And, and then another one of the other clients was like, well, you know, I've never been fishing, but I really wanna try fishing. Okay. Try it out. Right. Because at some point, once you hit a certain level, and I like to say this, like, once you hit a certain level, there's always come a new devil.
[00:46:44] **Herbie Mack:** And whatever toolbox that you used to use, whatever tools that you used to use in your toolbox may not be effective for this devil. So you have to try something different to, to really maneuver yourself into a better way. And, you know, Try it out. You know, even for myself, like [00:47:00] there's certain things that I do to try out to, okay, I like it.
[00:47:02] **Herbie Mack:** I didn't like it. I actually do like it. Let me actually sit down and try to learn how to play the piano. Let me actually sit down and try to learn a new language. Right? And it's something that's like, oh, it's challenging me, it's adding value to me, but it's also slowing the world down for me. Cause I'm not focusing on whatever problems I have or whatever issues that that's coming across.
[00:47:21] **Herbie Mack:** It's just like, oh, I'm actually trying to learn this language. You know? Yeah. I'm horrible at it, but guess what? Over time I'm gonna get better at it. You know, just because I'm, I, I'm, I'm doing the reps. And that's just one positive way that I try to grow as a person, but also try to get away from those negative experiences and thoughts because it's like, oh, this is a new challenge.
[00:47:42] **Elaine Lindsay:** Yeah. I think that's, that's a really, really good point. And another, well, this is a, a resource. It's a tool, but it's more. It's more part of your mindset, and that's the 80 20 rule. [00:48:00] Okay? The 80 20 rule fits across everything, you know, personal business, what have you. But I think for handling your stress and managing what's going on your life, you wanna know that, you know, guess what?
[00:48:17] **Elaine Lindsay:** 80% of the time I'm doing well, I'm, I'm getting through my day, I'm having more positive thoughts. Then celebrate that there's 20%. That's just not gonna work. You're gonna try tools that at that time don't work, or you're just going to be in a, a wallow. It's what I sometimes call it, and you know what, that's okay because you're only gonna allow that 20% and then you shake it off and you go back to doing the things you need and using the resources that you have.
[00:48:52] **Elaine Lindsay:** So that you stay in a more positive, but don't beat yourself up for not [00:49:00] making a hundred percent. Yeah. Okay. Nobody makes a hundred percent. That's perfect. Doesn't exist. Cuz guess what? It'd be boring. It would be so boring. 
[00:49:11] **Herbie Mack:** A another analogy or, or how I view it is, you know, in the beginning when we are learning how to tie our, our shoe, we are horrible at it.
[00:49:19] **Herbie Mack:** Yeah. But over time we get better at it. Right. And then there's moments when it's like, man, this is not the best knot, but whatever. I gotta keep it going and it's okay. So just like whatever skill sets that I'm trying to learn, I, I, I always compare it to tie my shoe, right? Like right now I'm currently trying to learn Spanish.
[00:49:36] **Herbie Mack:** Am I good at it? No. Nowhere near it. Right. But I know, like over time I, I'll get better at it might not, may look, you know, lopsided one day and it might look perfect the next day. Right. And I even tested out with some of my friends in Spanish and they're just like, bro, keep practicing. You know? And I'm like, ok, it's cool.
[00:49:56] **Herbie Mack:** It's cool. And then some of them are like, Hey, yo, that's, that's pretty good for a [00:50:00] beginner. That is really good for a beginning and that helps me. Okay, cool. I'm doing a decent job, you know, and, and now the school that my daughter goes to Spanish is like, she's learning that from pre-K all the way to high school.
[00:50:14] **Herbie Mack:** Yeah. So it's like, oh, she's going to learn Spanish at some point. She's gonna be way fluent than I am. But you know, what, if I, if I can meet her where she's at and learn it, it's that level, you know, it's like, that's my accountability partner. You know what I mean? Yeah. And, and then Absolutely. And that helps me stay locked in and focus to just keep on practicing.
[00:50:34] **Herbie Mack:** Keep on practicing. And then it, it's, and it's so funny now because like I can't really speak it very well. Yeah. But I can when I listen to like this artist called Bad Bunny, he's like probably the, one of the biggest artists in the world right now. And and his music, like, I was listening to it and I was like, wow, I actually understand the verse.
[00:50:53] **Herbie Mack:** Yeah. But no problem. Now, when if you would ask Yeah, if you would've asked me like three months ago, [00:51:00] far from it, you know, like I got little words, but it like, it, it helped me. And not only that, like I told you, it slows the world down for me. I'm not too hard on myself. I'm actually like, okay, I'm flawed, but it's fine.
[00:51:12] **Herbie Mack:** I'm learning and this is what life is all about. Learning and, and not comparing my, my Spanish to someone who have years of Spanish. She was like, no, I'm, look, I'm at this level and I'm okay with it. I'm growing. And it just, not only with Spanish, but just even with the healing journey. Yeah. Understanding that like, Hey, I'm at this level, but I am gonna grow.
[00:51:32] **Herbie Mack:** Yes. It's weird speaking into the mirror, all these positive affirmations, cuz it's just you and your thoughts. It seems weird, but then after the time you get better at it. Like, oh yes, I am smart, I am love, I can change the world. Or you know, sitting down writing your feelings and emotions you might like, I don't know what to write or I'll start crying, but it's okay, you're growing because you're not gonna be that same person that you was yesterday.
[00:51:55] **Elaine Lindsay:** Absolutely. Every day you have a chance to be a new [00:52:00] you, which I think is incredible. And all I can say is Ola. And then I think I, there's a couple more sentences which are totally irrelevant. 
[00:52:14] **Herbie Mack:** Yeah. It, it takes time. It really does. Yeah. It's like
[00:52:20] **Herbie Mack:** like, you know, it's like, it, it takes time. Just practicing that and, and really getting that down. But you know, like, Six months ago, I couldn't really even say that. That fluid. Yeah. Yeah. No, 
[00:52:30] **Elaine Lindsay:** you did that 
[00:52:30] **Herbie Mack:** really well. So it's like, oh, okay, cool. You know, and it, and it helps, but it, it, it's something that I know it's a new challenge and for me that's like part of my coping skills.
[00:52:39] **Herbie Mack:** It's just like really taking time to learn a new language or reading a book or listening to a book or a podcast, right? Just all I want is just 15, 20 minutes of, of no distractions and something that's gonna add value to my life or entertain me. 
[00:52:54] **Elaine Lindsay:** Yeah. Yeah. And entertainment can add, not just add value, but [00:53:00] it can be learning as well.
[00:53:02] **Herbie Mack:** Yes, yes. You would catch me either watching the office Jerry Seinfeld Seinfeld, like probably one of my favorite shows, the Office as well. But then like, you know, even watching like an action movie, something like a comic superhero movie would also just like, oh, it's entertainment, right? Sometimes I don't want to think, I, I just want, I just want to just sit down and just.
[00:53:23] **Herbie Mack:** And just go with the flow, because life can be overwhelming. Oh yeah. You know, but then also, not only that I realize like those moments where I don't think, like watching superhero movies Right. I built a lot of good friendships off of that. Yeah. You know, cuz it's like, oh, hey man, hey, you know, I'm not even thinking about the world.
[00:53:41] **Herbie Mack:** We're talking about Marvel, we are talking about DC and all this other stuff. And it's just like, yo, this is fun, this is good. And then it's like, oh, okay. I am the weirdo. But if I'm such the weirdo, why do I have friends that also have the same thing? Right. Because I found people that, that get my love language.
[00:53:59] **Herbie Mack:** [00:54:00] Yeah. It, it's huge. 
[00:54:02] **Elaine Lindsay:** I met Stan Lee. 
[00:54:05] **Herbie Mack:** I'm, I'm jealous. 
[00:54:07] **Elaine Lindsay:** In a hangout. I spent an hour with him. And you are? My son is super my son was trying to get him. In an interview. I was with a group of friends in a hangout and I just, I think the Marvel universe is, is absolutely brilliant because it does give hope.
[00:54:29] **Elaine Lindsay:** Yes. And, and that's, you know, incredible. Now, a little off script, but Guardians of the Galaxy, we're going as soon as it opens. Yes, 
[00:54:41] **Herbie Mack:** yes. I, I'm asking my wife, Hey do you think, do you think your mama watch the kids? I'm like, I'm asking, but No, but it's, it's, it's something like that, right? Like, no, we was talking earlier in episode as far as.
[00:54:55] **Herbie Mack:** You know, social media can be a negative thing, right? But it also can be a positive thing [00:55:00] because if you're that, that, that that kid or that, you know, teenager that's like, man, no one gets me, right? But then if you go into whatever platform you use, if you go like, look at whatever hashtag and you see someone that's talking about the Avengers or talking about gardens at Galaxy, right?
[00:55:18] **Herbie Mack:** And they might be really passionate about group and you're like, I am group. And you're like, man, I love group too. That person love group. Let me follow them. And that follow might lead into a dm. And then next thing you know, you, you got your own fan club, right? You got people that get your love language.
[00:55:32] **Herbie Mack:** So life doesn't seem too stressful, right? Like, oh man. Like, man, I, people are making fun of the way I dress or how I talk. Right. The fact that I'm always wearing superhero outfits or whatnot. But guess what? I found people that got me. Yeah. Right. They may not physically be here, but hey man, I can DM them or I can go into whatever, like Facebook group or, or whatever, chat and find them and just really be a sponge.
[00:55:57] **Herbie Mack:** Or I can act, actually express myself the way that I [00:56:00] want to express myself 
[00:56:01] **Elaine Lindsay:** and be part of your community. 
[00:56:04] **Herbie Mack:** Yes. That part. 
[00:56:06] **Elaine Lindsay:** Yeah, that's, that is definitely the good part of social media is that you can find community and the other thing that sometimes can be hard for us to get, and it's hard to stay there, but if you are looking for good, you're gonna find it.
[00:56:27] **Elaine Lindsay:** If you are hesitant, You're more likely to pull in negative. And if you're looking for negative, I guarantee you'll find it cuz there's a ton of it. But it is our intention. What you put out there is what you get back. Okay? If you walk into a bodega to buy something and you're smiling and you say, thanks very much, and the person behind the counter might have been a little surly with the person before you, but they're polite with you because [00:57:00] you just lifted their vibration and it makes you feel good, it makes them feel good.
[00:57:07] **Elaine Lindsay:** Okay? I drive my husband crazy because I wanna say hi to everybody on the planet. Okay? Everybody I walk by, doesn't matter if you've got headphones on, I'll do this. If you know, it doesn't matter if you're on a bicycle or whatever. I, I wanna say hello. And it's amazing. People don't often immediately hear you.
[00:57:31] **Elaine Lindsay:** Yeah. But then they'll turn around and go, oh, hi. You know, because we are so in our little bubbles, if ya let that bubble go a little and your intention is to pull, good to you. Now I'm getting really esoteric. I know. No, that's fine. But you can in fact affect what's around you and, and bring better things towards you.
[00:57:58] **Elaine Lindsay:** And when you get in the [00:58:00] habit of doing it, then it makes those tough times a lot easier and a lot shorter. Yeah. 
[00:58:09] **Herbie Mack:** I, I definitely agree with that. People want to be around good energy. Yeah. Yeah. Always around good energy even. Even, even when you're not like thinking, like the other day I went, I went grocery shopping and I'm like, I'm so locked into like, let me hurry up, lemme grab my groceries and come back home.
[00:58:29] **Herbie Mack:** And, you know, I'm a pretty much of a positive person and I don't know, at this time I just was like, horse with blinders. Just like, let me hurry up. Lemme grab this and hurry you back. Hurry up back home. Cuz you know, the misses need help with the, with the kiddos. And I had, it was someone that was like, Hey, you never know who's watching you.
[00:58:51] **Herbie Mack:** It was someone that was like, Hey, I always see you all the time, like everything okay. And I was just go, yeah, I'm good. Like, hey, how, how are you? You know? And it was like, oh, you know, you don't seem like yourself. And I'm just like, [00:59:00] I'm just, I was just focused and whatever. Yeah. And I thought, man, I never realized like, who's watching me?
[00:59:07] **Herbie Mack:** No, it was like the target that I always run to. And she's like, Hey, is everything okay? Like, are you doing fine? Like, you just don't seem like yourself. And I was just like, no, I'm fine. I'm just, you know, trying to hurry up and you know, help the wife out with the kids. And that person was like, oh, okay.
[00:59:19] **Herbie Mack:** Like, you know, I just wanted to make sure just checking in because you know, when I see you, you, you know, bring so much joy to me. And I was just like, but you don't even know me. Right? But it's just like, like that type of thing. And it was just like one of those like, oh wow. Oh, well thank you. I didn't realize I was making an impact when, you know, when you see me shopping, you know, I'm like, oh no, you always say hi.
[00:59:41] **Herbie Mack:** You always ask me how I'm doing. Yeah. You know, I just thought like something was bugging you and I just wanted to make sure you was okay. And I was like, oh, well thank you. 
[00:59:48] **Elaine Lindsay:** And, and see that's perfect. That's part of the law of reciprocity because you give out so much positive all the time when you come around, and [01:00:00] that's not the vibration you have.
[01:00:03] **Elaine Lindsay:** The people that you've always been nice to, are going to wonder and, and that, that the reciprocity is in checking in to make sure you are okay because you're not presenting as you normally do. I just think is absolutely 
[01:00:22] **Herbie Mack:** wonderful. I I just had to share that. 
[01:00:25] **Elaine Lindsay:** Oh, that's fabulous. Absolutely fabulous. So, oh my God, I, you and I could talk forever.
[01:00:32] **Herbie Mack:** It's just a conversation. 
[01:00:34] **Elaine Lindsay:** It's just a conversa. Yeah. Yeah. Well, by next year we will have a conversation face to face. I'm, I'm putting that one on my agenda. What would you like to leave our audience with today?
[01:00:54] **Herbie Mack:** I would like to leave them with understanding that you're not by yourself. I. You [01:01:00] know, during the, during the struggles that I was having, I thought I was by myself until I allowed my pride to actually sit there and decide to use my resources in understanding that, that I do have resources. They may not have all the answers, but guess what?
[01:01:16] **Herbie Mack:** They can actually help and guide me to the help that I do need. So, understanding that you're not by yourself, but understanding that that ask for help or resources or using your resources is such a great thing cuz you're not by yourself and you, you can find people that's gonna understand your energy, your vibe, your language.
[01:01:36] **Herbie Mack:** So go out there and ask for help and receive it. Be okay with it. 
[01:01:41] **Elaine Lindsay:** Absolutely. And just think you're not asking for help. You're using your resources. Yes. That was so well put, Herby, once again, thank you so much for being my guest. I so appreciate having you here. Your wisdom, your joy, and your [01:02:00] energy is lovely.
[01:02:02] **Elaine Lindsay:** Absolutely lovely. Thank you for listening. It's wonderful to have you with us as well. And as I always say, make the very best of your today every day, and I'll see you next time. Bye for now. Thank 
--------------------

Tracey Brown is a #1 Best-Selling Author and an International award winning Motivational Speaker in the mindset industry. Her signature speech “The Disease of Playing Small,” is featured on Amazon Prime Video Series “Speak Up” season 4. Tracey is a U.S. Coast Guard Veteran, facilitator and spokesperson for Polk Institute on the topic of “Mental Fitness for Entrepreneurs.”
 
Her journey into understanding how our mind is set was born from trauma, the literal flames of life-threatening burns at the age of eight and the trauma associated with years of Search and Rescue and Marine Safety in the United States Coast Guard.
 
Tracey’s mission is to help individuals and business leaders understand that we have great power in our choices and when we apply positive mindset, excellence in our language and joy in our endeavors, those choices will serve the highest good for all.
 
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Two time #1 International Best Selling Author 
#1 Best selling author of Rescue To Recovery, about overcoming undiagnosed PTS(D)
 
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Blogger and author of the Get Out of Your Head® book series
Brian Sachetta is the author of the Get Out of Your Head® book series, a collection of personal development works focused on helping readers overcome various forms of mental illness.
The first entry in that series, "Get Out of Your Head: A Toolkit for Living with and Overcoming Anxiety," was released in 2018. Brian also runs a website and blog of the same name.
Through his site, he offers written advice and coaching to clients looking to make strides in their battles with mental illness. Brian's desire to help others with anxiety and depression grew out of his own experiences with both afflictions.
Throughout his works, he recounts his past struggles with them due to not having the right information at his disposal. That's why he's so passionate about using his skills to influence the lives of others; he wants to help as many of his followers as possible avoid such a fate.
 
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Allyson Byers is an Associate Marriage and Family Therapist (AMFT #135025) in Los Angeles, CA under the supervision of Pam Shaffer (LMFT #91321). She specializes in grief and loss, chronic illness and pain, and trauma. She is also passionate about working with individuals with depression and/or suicidal ideation. As a queer therapist who has chronic illnesses, she draws from both her professional and lived experiences.
 
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It was March 20th, 1976. It was about two o'clock in the morning. It was really, really horrifically cold and we were still counting our cold and Fahrenheit Back then, it was that kind of weird foggy, you get in the middle of winter, painfully cold, even the fog feels frozen on your skin. It was now Saturday morning
 
Asleep at home, just after midnight, the phone rang. It was someone we knew. He'd been picked up by the police for drinking and driving. There was a time, I guess an awful lot of people drove drunk. How long ago you asked? Well, in fact, that was 47 years ago. My research told me it was a leap year. I  doubt I knew then that it was a leap here or if that actually mattered.
 
I ran into someone a couple of weeks ago at an event. someone local, who had an accident about nine months ago, and she was horrifically banged up in the accident. It caused her some hearing loss. It caused her to have heart issues. She took a brutal the brunt of the steering wheel and suffered as very serious concussion
 
There's an awful lot more things obviously going on, but concussion is a very strange beast in of itself. And she and I spoke at a luncheon where I was simply inquiring how she was having gone through some of the things she'd gone through. I wanted to offer some suggestions for tools that may be something she was already smart enough to be doing.
 
And some things that I learned very late in life were important, but I didn't get to them for some time. She wrote a post a few days later in response to some good news.  I was incredibly touched in that rshe reached out and talked about me, but that's not what prompted this anniversary article.
 
It was what she had said about herself along with the good news she could now hike and bike again.  And the article came about because in talking about the accident and her reflections after our talk and her good news, she stated that she wasn't any longer going to talk about it. The person “she used to be”, that person had been left back at the accident site.
 
And that information that those powerful words on that page hit me like a sledge.
 
You know, I hadn't realized that for all these years. I too lamented and referred to and daydreamed about the person “I used to be”.
 
And it took me 39 years to even openly deal with my accident, 39 years to start the process to open up to the forgiveness that had to be given all around. In so during I realized that it was really important that I too leave that 20 year old me at the accident site and in my case, she will be in good hands.
And that piece of the store is for another time
 
Yet, as I sit here retelling the story from the perspective of this anniversary, I can't help but smile at all the changes and all. . Oh, incredible. Happenings mostly in the last decade that have come from decades before where I thought I was just stalled in life, and yet I was doing self investigation. I was researching what had happened, and very, very slowly I was rebuilding this puzzle of my life, this new life.
And the interesting thing is, and I think I said early on here that I'd have to go back. I'd have to go back a lot farther than that accident because this last week where I've really looked deeply into what my friend said about her accident and where she's now going, and where I stand on this precipice, I realized.
 
In each of those moments of trauma, those difficult times in our lives when we're children, those sometimes material moments that send our entire access, spinning.  And often put us so far off kilter. It can be hard to ever think of returning. And yet what I now see is it's not so much a matter of returning as once again reinventing.
You see, for decades I've known, the only way forward for me was to dust off, reassess and reinvent and, and go on as this new form that I only understood peripherally. I didn't realize that's new. .
Well, the whole new being, and the only thing I needed to bring with me were the skills that were beneficial and the lessons that I needed to continue to go forward. I didn't need to drag all the baggage of how it got here and what had happened, and the boohoo hoos, and the if only, and the yes as my friend.
Be as I used to be because in certain times of trauma there is now going back there never again will be a you as you used to be.
And coming to terms with that is almost like a little. It's like you, you put that version of you to rest, and I now know that we must do it lovingly with thanks for the good things learned for the skills we can bring forward and. , understanding and forgiveness for the things that weren't so good for the mistakes made for the things that we perhaps wish were not, and yet why we go forward with positivity and empathy and kindness.
In embracing this new you, we are in fact increasing or increasingly becoming that better you. That's at the core of all the layers that make up you and me, and that's incredible. And the more I thought about it and the more I documented in my head the times, the trials, the, the trauma that led to a, a reinvention, a restart, if you will.
The more I understood.  that often those lessons were meant to give us enough of an understanding that we could have empathy for those who may have to fall into that trauma, go through that difficulty, that illness, that devastation.
And if we, you know, build a toolbox of those skills and bring those forward, even as we lay our old selves, our used to be cells to rest at their appropriate resting. , we are enriched by what they gave us and what an incredible gift that is to be able to have some hindsight and as much as there is no going.
There should no longer be a feeling of needing to go back, of needing to be who you used to be and there comes a joy from understanding that this new you going forward is a better. Is a version with more skills, more empathy, more kindness, more concern for our fellow humans, and more ability to serve those around us and do it in a way that is most beneficial to all, including ourselves.
Because what is it they say? You can't pour from an empty cup and like gently laying each of our used to be cells to rest. We are filling our cup with all the good things from those pieces and taking them forward into our new. Then whether your life has one or two or 20 reinventions, those skills that you take forward can only benefit you when you use them well in service of others.
Then that can have many, many. And you can look different each and every time. But this is an incredible lesson to learn. And so with that lesson in mind,
I will recount the story On March 20th, 1976. From this perspective, now being able to view those that were a part of that tableau with me in a very different light.
 

Every Woman Counts  An initiative in Support of The Royal Ottawa
#IWW2023
Thursday evening was my first event as the face of the Suicide Zen Forgiveness Podcast. My quick intro includes - I am not only the host, I am some of the stories therein.
 
I only found out about the event on Monday at another #IWW event, with Sonya Shorey, Vice President of Marketing and Communications with Invest Ottawa and Bayview Yards.
 
It was actually Michael Tremblay, the President and CEO who mentioned the event on Thursday March 9th, suggesting it would be of interest as it had to do with mental health and the Royal Ottawa's incredible initiatives. 
 
I was told there was a special guest… More about that later
 
I am a weird mix of bravado and fear.. I am in many ways an introvert… regardless of what others say. I am not comfortable with small talk, and am all ways eager to get to the meat of any discussion. 
 
Age and observation have finally tempered that somewhat! I am ok working a room, networking.
 
With an eidetic memory, it can be difficult for others when I approach with stories of conversations long past. It can be awkward too as I remember things promised as well as suggestions made. I have learned that it isn’t always comfortable to remind people of things they let fall through the cracks, or said in the moment with no thought for follow-through.
 
An example here: I ran into a guy in my thirties and said hello… quickly followed by.. “You won't remember me as I was only in your kindergarten class for 6 weeks!” Total blank stare on his part, with a hint of fear? Concern? Pity? LOL 
 
His name was Peter Brady and he had a number of siblings, One of whom, a sister, Diane.. A couple of years older than he and I. She didn’t know me from a hole in the ground- her parents and the whole family went to church with my Gran and Aunt. I lived in Toronto during grade school. I spent summers with my Gran and Aunt here in Ottawa. 
I attended Assumption church at least a few times a year. I thought Diane was always so well dressed, very on trend.
That little detour down memory lane, was a lead into the evening which started with me seeing folks I had not seen in years.. From about 4 or 5 years to almost 20 years in one case. 
 
We all change over time, however, not often as drastically as I have changed over the last 3 years. 
 
I no longer use a cane to assist me to walk, my hair is usually super straight and turquoise. Oh and I have dropped over 70 lbs, which it seems makes me somewhat unrecognizable on first glance. I seem to totally forget this when I go out now. 
 
In my discomfort, wrapped in my lack of self-confidence, which is still one of the demons with which I wrestle, I often think I’m not very memorable, and this is part of my long term awkwardness, one of the mental challenges that has been an ongoing internal conversation for decades.. 
 
It wasn't lost on me that the event had to do with mental health services and the access for all women. 
 
Back to the event…
 
It was created by Women for Mental Health at The Royal who said “The reception featured some of the fierce women championing the most important work in women's mental health care and research. Attendees learned how The Royal is working to serve the women in our community through customized care and access, and why it's so important.”
 
The surprise speaker was the honourary patron of The Royal, Margaret Trudeau, wife of past prime minister Pierre Trudeau and mother of Canada's current prime minister Justin Trudeau.
 
Margaret has been open and honest with her own mental health for a long long time. To this day she brings hope, inspiration, and change to the world of mental health. And has been at the forefront of much of the best in philanthropy here in Canada and abroad.
The other speakers ranged from peer helpers, now full time employees to the chair of Women for Mental Health, Katherine Cooligan.  
 
Getting the information out about the podcast, and being able to further my cause to end the silence, stigma and shame surrounding suicide and extending to mental health in general was the fuel that fired me up to attend and participate in this event. 
 
This was the first, as the face of Suicide Zen Forgiveness, and now that the ice is broken, its time to make some noise… 
 
Ending the Silence, Stigma and Shame will be beneficial to all of us. Starting the conversation early with children, about their thoughts and the veracity of those thoughts, and arming them with tools like meditation and visualization to handle their myriad emotions, both big and small in ways that allow them to remain in a position of choice. 
 
Choice in how we react is ours. Giving each person the tools to make each choice a little easier, in times of distress, anxiety, suicidal ideation or simply an overwhelm of any emotion is key to a healthier, happier future. That future begins with you.  
 
Let’s provide the tools for the next generation to be open to discussing all their emotions. To be open to learning that thoughts are not always true and emotions are meant to flow and go.
 
I believe that it was a successful event, and I am open and choose to look forward to the next one…
 
Let’s choose to be silent no more  #SilentNoMore
 

My guest, Patrick Chester is a 51 years old husband, and father of two boys. Patrick spent 15 years living in the darkness that is gambling addiction.
Patrick is a graduate of the University of Washington, who eventually went on to work for himself as a general contractor. 
 
Patrick spent many years building a solid reputation, and was widely respected as a business owner and professional. He threw it all away as his sports gambling addiction took over his life. Everything took a back seat to his gambling addiction, including his own family. Patrick ended up over a million dollars in debt, suicidal, and ultimately sent off to jail for the crimes he committed to feed his addiction. 
 
Patrick left jail in June of 2015 and has devoted his life ever since, to those that suffer in their own addiction. Gambling addiction lives in the shadows and it's hard to recognize, Patrick’s hope is to raise awareness and educate people about the dangers of gambling harms. 
 
Currently working with Epic Risk Management, Patrick is traveling the country and educating student athletes about the consequences and risks when it comes to sports betting and gambling. 
Social Links
Twitter  @PatrickChester9
Patrick on YouTube
www.patrickchester.com